Legislature(1993 - 1994)

01/27/1993 03:00 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                        January 27, 1993                                       
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                                
  Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                                     
  Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                                  
  Rep. Tom Brice                                                               
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Irene Nicholia                                                          
  Rep. Harley Olberg                                                           
  Rep. Al Vezey                                                                
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  Overviews of the Health Resources and Access Task Force and                  
  the proposed Comprehensive Health Insurance and Payment                      
  Reform Act of 1993.                                                          
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  Karen Perdue                                                                 
  P.O. Box 73209                                                               
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99707                                                      
  (907) 456-5780                                                               
  Position Statement:  Public member of the Health Resources                   
                       and Access Task Force representing                      
                       health care consumers                                   
                                                                               
  Mano Frey                                                                    
  President                                                                    
  Alaska AFL-CIO                                                               
  2501 Commercial Drive                                                        
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                      
  (907) 258-6284                                                               
  Position Statement:  Public member of the Health Resources                   
                       and Access Task Force representing                      
                       organized labor                                         
                                                                               
  Dr. David T. Mather                                                          
  1569 Northfield Road                                                         
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                      
  (907) 455-6942                                                               
  Position Statement:  Public member of the Health Resources                   
                       and Access Task Force representing                      
                       nonprofit organizations                                 
                                                                               
  Jerome Near                                                                  
  Field Underwriter                                                            
  New York Life Insurance Co.                                                  
  Drawer 448                                                                   
  Soldotna, Alaska 99669                                                       
  (907) 262-4461                                                               
  Position Statement:  Public member of the Health Resources                   
                       and Access Task Force representing                      
                       health insurers                                         
                                                                               
  Janet P. Oates                                                               
  Director, Marketing and Community Relations                                  
  Providence Hospital                                                          
  3200 Providence Drive                                                        
  P.O. Box 196604                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99519-6604                                                 
  (907) 261-3145                                                               
  Position Statement:  Discussed CHIPRA                                        
                                                                               
  Dr. Rodman Wilson, M.D.                                                      
  Fellow of American College of Physicians, Internal Medicine                  
  6234 Tanaina Drive                                                           
  Anchorage, Alaska 99502                                                      
  (907) 243-5583                                                               
  Position Statement:  Public member of the Health Resources                   
                       and Access Task Force representing                      
                       providers                                               
                                                                               
  Raymond Schalow                                                              
  Executive Director                                                           
  Alaska State Medical Association                                             
  4107 Laurel St.                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99508-5334                                                 
  (907) 562-2662                                                               
  Position Statement:  Presentation on CHIPRA                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-6, SIDE A                                                            
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR CON BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:02 p.m. and                 
  noted members present.  He noted that the meeting was being                  
  teleconferenced on a listen-only basis to Anchorage,                         
  Fairbanks, Homer, the Matanuska-Susitna Borough, Sitka and                   
  Soldotna.  He said the first order of business would be an                   
  overview presentation on the Health Resources and Access                     
  Task Force, followed by a report on the Comprehensive Health                 
  Insurance and Payment Reform Act of 1993.  Chair Bunde said                  
  each presentation would be followed by questions from the                    
  committee.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 098                                                                   
                                                                               
  KAREN PERDUE, a public member of the Health Resources and                    
  Access Task Force representing consumers, said the members                   
  would present the results of their two-year effort studying                  
  health care resources and access, then discuss their                         
  proposed solutions.  She had earlier presented two                           
  documents.  The first was an 83-page document entitled, "The                 
  State of Alaska Health Resources and Access Task Force Final                 
  report to the Governor and Legislature, January 1993,"                       
  herein incorporated as Attachment 1.  A second document was                  
  a 25-page, condensed version of the report, herein                           
  incorporated as Attachment 2.                                                
                                                                               
  MS. PERDUE began by discussing the issues the task force                     
  examined over the past two years.  She referred to                           
  Attachment 2, page two, showing projected rises in total                     
  state health care costs to $5.6 billion and per capita costs                 
  to $7,341 by the year 2003.                                                  
                                                                               
  MS. PERDUE said health care spending has outstripped other                   
  elements of the state and has cut business profits.  The                     
  nation's health care crisis is reflected in Alaska, she                      
  said.  The state paid about $318 million on health care in                   
  1991, about 20 percent of the total amount spent on health                   
  care.  She predicted the 11 percent to 13 percent increase                   
  in health care spending for the next several years would                     
  take a bigger bite from the state budget.                                    
                                                                               
  MS. PERDUE presented several demographic statistics about                    
  health care in Alaska.  She said about 76,000 Alaskans lack                  
  health insurance, not including the underinsured or those                    
  receiving other forms of government health care.  As costs                   
  rise, this number will rise.  Almost 90 percent of the                       
  uninsured do have jobs, though they work in industries or                    
  small businesses that do not offer health insurance.  She                    
  said the uninsured represent a wide range of economic                        
  levels.  Up to 30 percent of those uninsured are children,                   
  as many insurance policies do not include children or                        
  dependents without additional costs.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 224                                                                   
                                                                               
  MANO FREY, president of the Alaska AFL-CIO and a public                      
  member of the Health Resources and Access Task Force                         
  representing organized labor, said the health care crisis                    
  affects all Alaskans.  He described the task force's                         
  extensive work.  He warned the legislature not to wait for                   
  President Bill Clinton's administration to take action first                 
  on health care.  He argued that Alaska's special                             
  geographical and transportation conditions warrant swift and                 
  independent action.  If necessary, state legislation could                   
  be later molded to fit national legislation, or challenged                   
  by lawsuit.  He encouraged the committee to give favorable                   
  consideration to the task force's recommendations and to use                 
  them as a basis for health care reform.                                      
                                                                               
  MS. PERDUE said public input to the task force indicated                     
  some major needs:  the need for fundamental reform of the                    
  health care system; the need to address rising health care                   
  costs; the need for universal access to health care; and the                 
  need to address basic public health services such as public                  
  water and sewer systems.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 360                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. DAVID MATHER, a task force member representing Alaska                    
  Native nonprofit health corporations, said the task force                    
  met for 30 days and produced recommendations he offered as a                 
  basis for public discussion on the issue.                                    
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER indicated his intention to speak on the                           
  interconnected issues of health care access and cost                         
  control.  The task force believes that neither workers,                      
  state government, nor business will be able to afford the                    
  projected annual $29,000 cost of health care for a family of                 
  four, he said.  Either the state must control the cost, or                   
  it will be forced to pay more of it as fewer middle class                    
  people can afford health care.                                               
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER said cost control efforts have focussed on                        
  specific cost areas like hospitals or doctors' costs, but                    
  such piecemeal efforts force up prices elsewhere in the                      
  system.  To counter this problem, most health care reform                    
  ideas include comprehensive cost containment mechanisms.                     
                                                                               
  Number 417                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER stated the task force supports a global budgeting                 
  approach, which would cap total spending in each general                     
  area of health care, with the amounts set through a                          
  political process.  Both the Comprehensive Health Insurance                  
  and Payment Reform Act (CHIPRA) and the task force support                   
  limiting price increases to the Consumer Price Index in                      
  Alaska, which would save $1.5 billion each year until the                    
  year 2003.  This approach allows politicians to set the                      
  overall funding levels, but would involve health care                        
  providers in deciding how to set rates and how to allocate                   
  funding.  The task force proposed creating a well-funded                     
  public health authority to set global budgets and to                         
  negotiate contracts.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 458                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER discussed the task force's second recommendation:                 
  to allow universal access to health care.  He described                      
  different access plans.  The "pay or play" plan, such as the                 
  one in effect in Massachusetts, requires all employers to                    
  provide insurance or pay an insurance tax.  An approach used                 
  in Hawaii requires employers to provide insurance, but such                  
  a plan requires some waivers of federal law.  The approach                   
  that Alaska should pursue, he recommended, is a program                      
  similar to Canada's in which the government is the single                    
  payer for health care, but in which such care is provided by                 
  independent doctors, hospitals, nurses and others.                           
                                                                               
  Number 487                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER said such a system is best suited to Alaska,                      
  since many people move from job to job and work in seasonal                  
  industries, and since government pays nearly two-thirds of                   
  medical costs already.  There are difficulties in                            
  implementing a single-payer system, but it would bring                       
  savings in administrative services that would permit                         
  extension of care to uninsured Alaskans.  He said those                      
  proposing CHIPRA agree with that assessment.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 538                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called an at-ease.  He recalled the meeting to                   
  order, and Mr. Mather proceeded.                                             
                                                                               
  MR. MATHER stated that Alaska faces a crossroads between                     
  taking no action and seeing health care become more                          
  expensive and unavailable, or attempting a comprehensive                     
  solution to control costs and provide decent universal                       
  health care at less total cost.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 551                                                                   
                                                                               
  JERRY NEAR, a field underwriter for New York Life Insurance                  
  Co. and a Health Resources and Access Task Force member                      
  representing the insurance industry, said the sate health                    
  care system faces meltdown as people leave the system,                       
  raising costs for those remaining in the system.  He said                    
  the task force tried to allow access to health insurance to                  
  small businesses, which employ most people in the state.  He                 
  referred to page 19 of Attachment 2, the start of                            
  recommendations to improve health care access.  He warned                    
  that delaying action on the issue would only exacerbate the                  
  problems and he encouraged prompt action.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 580                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE reminded the task force members to submit any                    
  written testimony they might have and opened the floor to                    
  questions.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY asked whether the task force's fourth                    
  recommendation, to pass legislation to reform small group                    
  health insurance markets, did not represent the kind of                      
  piecemeal approach the task force members had warned                         
  against.                                                                     
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER answered that the task force had wrestled with                    
  such questions, but decided problems with small group health                 
  insurance could be addressed expeditiously with relatively                   
  quick and simple action, independent of a comprehensive                      
  overhaul of the health care system, which might take several                 
  years.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 619                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER, in response to a question from Chair Bunde, said                 
  that the 76,000 uninsured residents in the state excluded                    
  15,000 people eligible for health care through the Alaska                    
  Native Health Service (ANS).                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked how the task force recommendations related                 
  to the ANS program and other existing systems.                               
                                                                               
  DR. MATHER said the state should push the federal government                 
  to continue operating the Alaska Native health care system,                  
  and any new health care system should be coordinated with                    
  the ANS system, as it would with any existing insurance                      
  program.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 639                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked how the task force's recommendations would                 
  mesh with or conflict with the reforms proposed in the                       
  CHIPRA proposal.                                                             
                                                                               
  DR. RODMAN WILSON, a physician and member of the Health                      
  Resources and Access Task Force representing health care                     
  providers, and who has also sat in on the CHIPRA meetings,                   
  said the proposals had several similarities and differences.                 
  Among the differences, he said, are that CHIPRA relies on                    
  employers as the main source of health insurance, whereas,                   
  the task force would stop private employers from offering                    
  such insurance.  Also, CHIPRA would create a privately                       
  operated health authority and claims clearinghouse, while                    
  the task force envisions operating such functions through                    
  public processes.  The CHIPRA recommendations also contain                   
  more tort reform, he added.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 661                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. GARY DAVIS asked whether the task force wished they had                 
  a trial attorney on the team, and was answered with laughter                 
  from the audience, which Chair Bunde interpreted as a                        
  negative answer.                                                             
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY encouraged consideration of small business'                      
  limitations in providing health care insurance.  She also                    
  asked who would control the pool of money that would come in                 
  from taxes, insurance premiums and other sources, and which                  
  would go out in compensation to health care providers.  She                  
  also asked who would set rates.                                              
                                                                               
  DR. WILSON answered that the government might hire a                         
  contractor to manage one large pool of health care money,                    
  and the government would negotiate how much of that pool                     
  they would spend for each general area of health care.  He                   
  said the task force doubted that federal health care                         
  providers would pay into such a pool at first, but might                     
  eventually.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said the federal health care providers would                     
  have to be included in such a pool for the system to work.                   
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-6, SIDE B                                                            
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. WILSON encouraged committee members to study Table 4-3                   
  on page 23 of Attachment 2 and on page 64 of Attachment 1,                   
  which he described as the heart of the issue:  that a future                 
  single payer system would provide health care at less cost                   
  than the current system would if it does not change.                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE observed that the 76,000 uninsured Alaskans had                  
  their health care insurance costs paid by others.  He asked                  
  members of the task force what initial legislation they                      
  would introduce to address the health care system if they                    
  themselves were legislators.                                                 
                                                                               
  MS. PERDUE said all members believe that the most important                  
  element of their plan is the health care authority that is                   
  separate from government, but which has the professional                     
  staff to begin building a database and (unintelligible).                     
                                                                               
  Number 047                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. WILSON agreed with Ms. Perdue and added that some small                  
  group market reform bills, and possibly some tort reform                     
  bills, might be introduced soon.  He mentioned possibly                      
  lowering the prejudgment interest rate of 10.5 percent added                 
  onto awards for successful malpractice suits, retroactive to                 
  the date the lawsuit was filed.                                              
                                                                               
  MS. PERDUE also said bills already in the state legislature                  
  could achieve many of the task force's recommendations for                   
  short-term action, such as for small market reform.  She                     
  mentioned the Healthy Start Bill, which would allow parents                  
  to buy inexpensive health insurance for their children.                      
                                                                               
  Number 090                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. WILSON encouraged the committee to keep up on national                   
  efforts at health insurance and health care reform and to                    
  remain ready to pass their own bills in case federal efforts                 
  are unsuccessful.                                                            
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called a short at-ease at 3:52 p.m.  He called                   
  the meeting back to order at 3:59 p.m.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 119                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. JANET OATES, director of marketing and community                         
  relations at Providence Hospital in Anchorage, introduced                    
  herself and announced her intent to describe the hows and                    
  whys of the Comprehensive Health Insurance and Payment                       
  Reform Act.                                                                  
                                                                               
  MS. OATES said that two years ago physicians and doctors                     
  were concerned with the direction of possible legislation                    
  that focussed only on containing health care costs.  She                     
  decried such an approach, saying such an approach would lead                 
  to increased costs elsewhere.  Rather than simply criticize                  
  the legislature, they decided to see what areas of the                       
  health care system they would be willing to change.                          
                                                                               
  MS. OATES stated that they followed the Health Reform Task                   
  Force's efforts closely and tried to work out the nuts and                   
  bolts of health care reform, focussing on how to control                     
  costs and what they would need to get in return for doing                    
  so.  They also addressed the criticism they heard for                        
  wanting the public to have increased access to health care                   
  merely because it would increase their business.  She said                   
  Raymond Schalow, executive director of the Alaska State                      
  Medical Association, would address that issue in a                           
  meaningful way in his presentation.                                          
                                                                               
  MS. OATES said they kept focussed on finding an answer, not                  
  bewailing the problem.  She noted that both the health care                  
  task force and those who prepared the CHIPRA proposal were                   
  trapped by actuarial constrictions.  She mentioned Hawaii,                   
  which passed its own health care plan 18 years ago in                        
  anticipation of a federal plan, and has since been the sole                  
  state to successfully address problems in health care                        
  access.  She credited that state for trying to see what kind                 
  of health care they could provide at a given cost.  She then                 
  introduced Mr. Schalow.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 190                                                                   
                                                                               
  RAYMOND SCHALOW, executive director of the Alaska State                      
  Medical Association, began his presentation by saying that                   
  nine physicians and seven administrators have been working                   
  for 27 months on the project.  He indicated their ideas are                  
  not unrealistically optimistic, but are a detailed set of                    
  draft legislation that he hoped would serve as a basis for                   
  discussion.  He began displaying a set of overhead                           
  projections, copies of which are herein incorporated as                      
  Attachment 3.  (All attachments are on file in the House                     
  HESS Committee room during session; thereafter, they may be                  
  found in the Legislative Reference Library.)                                 
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW said the group developed a set of principles for                 
  a successful health care system.  As outlined on pages one                   
  and two of Attachment 3, they are:  affordable quality                       
  universal health care; patient responsibility; preventative                  
  care; adequate capitalization; choice of provider; market                    
  environment; and scientific basis for care.                                  
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW stated their proposal attempts to fairly share                   
  the sacrifices necessary in health insurance reform among                    
  the insurance industry, the trial attorneys, physicians,                     
  hospitals and the public.  They even require that Medicaid                   
  recipients pay some small amount, to encourage a sense of                    
  responsibility.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 232                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW referred to page three of Attachment 3, listing                  
  the features of CHIPRA's health system reform, some of                       
  which, he said, complement those of the task force's                         
  efforts.  The features are:  everyone gives up something;                    
  insurance reform; administrative simplification; cost                        
  controls; medical liability reform; funding; and the Alaska                  
  Health Insurance Corporation.                                                
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW referred to page four of Attachment 3, which                     
  outlines the components of CHIPRA.  He indicated that there                  
  is a need for reliable data on health insurance, saying that                 
  there is little data available on health insurance in                        
  Alaska, and even the data presented by the task force is                     
  suspect.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW stated, "The cost control agency obviously, with                 
  the program that we are presenting, the government CPHI                      
  (consumer price household index?) will hold back cost                        
  control, but the cost control agency is created to control                   
  volume.  That in the pool would be state and municipal                       
  employees, the uninsured, and employer plans, and self-                      
  insures that data would also go into the corporation.  So                    
  this is just a quick glance -- glimpse -- of what we're                      
  trying to do."                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 261                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW referred to page seven of Attachment 3, which                    
  outlines the elements of CHIPRA insurance reform.                            
                                                                               
       1) Universal Coverage.  He said those proposing CHIPRA                  
  decided early in their development process to include a                      
  requirement that those receiving a permanent fund dividend                   
  must show proof of health insurance.  He believes many                       
  uninsured people can afford to buy it but choose not to.                     
                                                                               
       2) Eligibility.  He said anyone would be eligible for                   
  CHIPRA benefits if they qualified for a permanent fund                       
  dividend.                                                                    
                                                                               
       3) Insurance Pool.  He said CHIPRA would create an                      
  insurance pool of about 200,000 people, including all                        
  employees of local and state governments, universities,                      
  school districts, and retirees from such employers and their                 
  dependents.  He said the insurance industry, seeking more                    
  profit, has eliminated coverage for many high-cost policy                    
  holders, thus subverting his conception of insurance as a                    
  pool in which people share the risk of financial risk.                       
                                                                               
       4) Employee Contribution to Health Insurance.                           
  According to Mr. Schalow, employers must provide insurance                   
  or switch to CHIPRA, and must pay taxes to make up any                       
  difference in coverage levels between their plan and CHIPRA.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 296                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW described the CHIPRA policy as a $1,000                          
  catastrophic policy.  He said the big problem with health                    
  care insurance is with uninsured people who suffer costly                    
  catastrophic illnesses or accidents.                                         
                                                                               
       5) Community Rating.  They backed off of immediately                    
  rating communities because it would increase individual                      
  premiums to $2,000 per month.  Instead, they proposeD                        
  phasing it in over five years.                                               
                                                                               
       6) Guaranteed Renewability and Portability.                             
                                                                               
       7) Stabilize Health Insurance Premiums.  Health                         
  insurance companies would have to prove the need for raising                 
  premiums higher than the Consumer Price Index.  He said                      
  companies should not balance out financial losses in other                   
  states by rasing premiums in Alaska.                                         
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW discussed CHIPRA's efforts at simplifying                        
  administration of health insurance.  Such elements include                   
  establishing a single claim form for all users, a single                     
  clearinghouse that would pay claims, and a 15-day limit on                   
  claims processing and payment, which would save money and                    
  reduce complications.                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW referred to page 10 of Attachment 3, which                       
  outlines CHIPRA's cost controls.  They include:                              
                                                                               
       1) linking price increases to the General Consumer                      
  Price Index to limit spiraling costs;                                        
                                                                               
       2) requiring physicians and hospitals to give up 5                      
  percent of their fees to the CHIPRA pool;                                    
                                                                               
       3) publishing provider fee schedules to allow market                    
  forces to operate;                                                           
                                                                               
       4) establishing a separate corporation to limit the                     
  volume of medical services offered, so as to encourage                       
  health care providers to self-police those who collect                       
  unusually high fees;                                                         
                                                                               
       5) eliminating the practice of shifting the costs of                    
  providing care for the uninsured to the insured, which can                   
  add up to 15 percent to the insurance bills;                                 
                                                                               
       6) reducing defensive medicine, the practice of                         
  performing costly and superfluous tests in order to                          
  forestall later patient accusations of neglect; and                          
                                                                               
       7) requiring patients to share some of the costs of                     
  medical service, even when insured.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 460                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW referred to page 14 of Attachment 3, which shows                 
  proposed medical liability reform.  He said many physicians                  
  have told him they would be willing to give up a lot if the                  
  insurance industry would change to relieve them of the                       
  complications and hassles involved in dealing with it.                       
  The reform measures, as outlined on page 17, include:                        
                                                                               
       1) a $250,000 cap on non-economic damages;                              
                                                                               
       2) periodic payments of court awarded judgments;                        
                                                                               
       3) collateral income sources;                                           
                                                                               
       4) statute of limitations on claims for injury;                         
                                                                               
       5) protection of hospitals from liability for actions                   
          by non-employees;                                                    
                                                                               
       6) court-ordered non-binding arbitration; and                           
                                                                               
       7) prejudgment interest rates set lower than the                        
          current 10.5 percent.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 506                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW referred to page 18 of Attachment 3, which                       
  describes the function of an Alaska Health Insurance                         
  Corporation that would establish a health benefits package,                  
  establish uniform utilization review standards, and perform                  
  analyses of the health system.  It would also negotiate with                 
  providers for discounts, monitor the solvency of the CHIPRA                  
  pool, control costs, publish provider fees for usual and                     
  customary procedures, and propose target budgets.                            
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW briefly described the sources for funding for                    
  the CHIPRA pool, as outlined on page 20 of Attachment 3.                     
                                                                               
  (Rep. Nicholia left at 4:25 p.m., and Rep. Bettye Davis                      
  followed at 4:26 p.m.)                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE opened the floor to questions.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 542                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY commented that the CHIPRA and health care access                 
  task force reports seemed to indicate the imminent demise of                 
  the insurance companies as middlemen in the provision of                     
  health care, and asked whether that was not a good idea.                     
                                                                               
  MS. OATES responded that members of the insurance industry                   
  have expressed fear that they are being rendered obsolete.                   
  She said the CHIPRA plan would set up a clearinghouse that                   
  would allow the insurance companies to sell insurance.  She                  
  also suggested the CHIPRA proposals could be an opportunity                  
  for all those involved to streamline their operations.                       
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW said the insurance industry expressed a dislike                  
  of the idea of giving up the claims processing to an outside                 
  clearinghouse.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 568                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked what the basic monthly premium would be                    
  for CHIPRA health insurance.                                                 
                                                                               
  MS. OATES said she did not know, she would need more                         
  actuarial information.  She said they would like to start                    
  with a low premium and see what kind of coverage they could                  
  afford.                                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW repeated the need for better data, saying he has                 
  been unable to ascertain the current cost of providing                       
  health care to Alaskans now, and estimates have ranged from                  
  $2,000 to $3,500 per person per month.                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked about the portability of CHIPRA benefits.                  
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW answered that CHIPRA benefits would be good only                 
  in Alaska, and employers would be required to provide their                  
  workers insurance or pay a state insurance tax.                              
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE expressed concern at potential overuse of a                      
  universal health care plan for minor complaints and asked                    
  whether CHIPRA tries to control demand.                                      
                                                                               
  DR. WILSON said CHIPRA's cost-control mechanism controls                     
  volume of services provided, not fees.  Under the system,                    
  any unusual or unexplained increase in costs would be                        
  investigated and possibly corrected by having a health care                  
  provider's peers question such overruns.                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked the witnesses to give him written opinions                 
  of the Oregon health care plan.                                              
                                                                               
  MR. SCHALOW answered briefly that he believed that Oregon                    
  should attempt such a system.                                                
  Number 634                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE thanked those attending the meeting at the                       
  remote teleconference sites, and ADJOURNED the meeting at                    
  4:30 p.m.                                                                    

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